"So I told the people that were still left...about the idea God had given me..." -Jamison Hoelscher

How did God give you this idea? Was it revealed in a dream? Or through feelings while you were praying? Maybe it was just your own thought to promote prayer and not an idea from God. These are aerospace and business students engaging in mysticism and proud of it.

Hahaahahha, that is the funniest thing I have ever heard....god gave you the idea. I totally agree with James. Why can't people take responsibility for their own life rather than saying god told me to do it, god gave me he idea, or god planned this for me. Start taking charge of your own life rather than god telling you what to do.

I would honestly follow the will that God has for my life, rather than follow what my own feelings/thoughts/opinions lead me to believe is right. Why? Because I feel like I would mess it up nearly every time. If God is perfect (and I believe He is) He is going to lead the people He loves into situations that promote own good and His glory. Keep in mind, these situations may not always be favorable, but the reward will outweigh whatever I have lost following Him in pursuit of His will. I am a civil engineering major, and I do not believe in "mysticism", but I do believe that my God is a faithful one that speaks to His people through His Holy Spirit.

by "own good" I meant "our good"...oops :)

In response to James Newlin: is theism really mysticism? Science has not yet come up with a halfway decent explanation of how this universe ever came into existence, nor will it ever. Is it not the basis of the scientific method that nothing can ever be proven? that a theory is only valid until a better one replaces it? How long will evolution last? It's already sketchy as it is, even people like Jay Gould have rejected Darwinian evolution. In the end, it all comes down to faith. Do you put your faith in human methods, calculations, and theories? or do you put your faith in God(for when have humans ever been known to do something perfectly)? Science is just a 'mystical' as theism. Just because you can quantify science doesn't mean that it's absolute truth. The whole point of faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you don't see. I know that if you question the legitimacy of Christianity, that won't appease you. You demand hard-core evidence before you acknowledge it's existence. But the point is God offers salvation to those who believe without evidence and trust that he will come through in the end. If you won't accept that, then there's no point in arguing. We must agree to disagree, for I will not change my views and you won't change yours.

and to Ag'06: We are taking responsibility for our lives, by reconciling for all the wrongs we have committed. And on a departing note to both, just because God's never said anything to you, doesn't mean he doesn't to anyone else. Have you ever sincerely tried to listen to what he's saying to you? As science would dictate, you never know until you test it out.

Ah, but that's the beauty of America - you're free to believe in whatever or whomever you choose to believe in and even though I don't agree with Newlin or Ag 06, it is their choice to believe the way they do. The article and these Aggies are not forcing anyone to do anything, so where's the harm?

Personally, I'd rather spend my life living as if there is a God, die and find out there's not one then to live as if there isn't and die to find out there is.

Hey James, I am actually surprised to see you again. I mean, after you randomly sent a message to one of the prayer leaders telling her not to post flyers advertising this event, and then ended our conversation on Facebook by blocking me when you didn't agree with my views, I figured that would be enough. But I am glad to see that you are apparently still very interested and following it closely enough to make a comment about it at (pardon the pun) ungodly hours of the morning (and yes, 7:30 is indeed an ungodly time for college students, LOL).

Even though I know that you weren't really interested, to answer your question, James, I felt the Holy Spirit tell me to have an all-day prayer event, and not limit it to just an hour in the morning as with SYATP. I can't really explain how it is indicated to me, but many Christians have experienced it. Not a verbal voice, but a clear indication nevertheless. Sometimes we get uneasy about certain situations or feel bad in our conscience after doing something wrong, but this was different and specific.

To Ag'06: I hope you realize that I am not one who proclaims what I "heard from God" every day as some people have claimed to (like televangelists have done in the past), then say and do many things that misrepresent Christ. The times when God reveals things to me are somewhat rare and very special. And also, why do you consider my attributing to God the glory for what He gave me as not taking responsibility for my own life? Would it not bring more glory to myself if I said I came up with the idea rather than saying God put it on my heart? It definitely would, but God did put it on my heart, so I would be selfish to take any of the glory for myself. God was in this whole event. I am not a great organizer, and it wasn't like the people involved in this were all my best buds. Most of the prayer leaders were people I had met only briefly. I knew Rebecca through a book sale, yet God used her mightily in this prayer event, and one of the other prayer leaders I knew through an Oceanography class. The amazing weather was another God thing since Monday's weather was really bad, but Tuesday was beautiful. I know you guys will say it is all coincidence, but there is so much more evidence than that in my life that God has a plan for everything.

As far as mysticism is concerned, the definition and denotation is correctly identified with Christianity. However, the connotation which James invoked is a negative one applied to wackos like psychics and channelers. That's a whole different topic about spiritual warfare, but I agree that Christianity believes in spirits both evil and good, angels and demons, and the Holy Spirit whom Jesus sent to all believers after he rose from the dead to guide us into all truth.

To address James' second comment, yes, Christianity is not exactly aligned with the American Dream. The American Dream and our economy is based on selfishness and greed. Christianity is about selflessness and love. If you want to try to earn your way to a perfect God, go ahead and try. I had to realize that I couldn't erase my sins on my own too.

Godspeed,
Jamison Hoelscher

P.S. If anyone wants to talk more with me about anything, or get involved with the upcoming Dawn 2 Dusk on May 1st feel free to Facebook me.

Okay, James, now you are starting to scare me a little. You think that helping out people (remember that they are people) with disabilities and handicaps is bringing down America? I have a feeling that if you got in a car wreck and were physically disabled, you would probably change your mind in a heartbeat.

I mean, I have heard of people following Darwin's Natural Selection (survival of the fittest) ideologies before, but those people that implemented it were people like Hitler with his supreme race. And you think Christianity is un-American? What you are proposing is denying the rights of "life... and the pursuit of happiness" and that "all men are created equal". I don't think you will win too many people over by attacking laws that help the disadvantaged.

Just for curiosity purposes, does Thursday, May 1, 2008 fall on the dead day where there are no classes, or is that one of the final weeks of real classes?

Also, does Aggie Ring Day fall around that time? I'm too lazy to look it up since I work for a living haha.

I would say a better turnout would be on a day without classes, and if it is a dead day (it's humor, go with it), you'll get a higher turnout because of exams!

Hey Jamison, just curious how it is you got from "Darwin's Natural Selection ideologies" to Hitler? Please elaborate for my amusement!

I know I just posted, but survival of the fittest applies to all sorts of life.

Please keep in mind I"m being a smart AZZ when I do this.

I was driving home from work a few days ago. Two kids probably between 9-11 years of age were running speed drills like you would in football practice; sprinting as hard as you can over a set distance.

Only problem was they were doing this in rush hour traffic on Greenville Avenue in Dallas to see who can dodge traffic better and quicker. Those of you that know this street know what I am talking about.

Now, kids like this should not be allowed to procreate. PERIOD. Hence Survival of the Fittest. I would feel great remorse if they got hit, especially if it was me, but it all could be avoided if they used that brain thing that God gave them.

I know, I know.... it's ironic because they are doing sprints and hence are fitter than I am most likely.

James, all I have to say is, you are fortunate to have been blessed so that you can afford insurance, college, and whatever you enjoy. Some people aren't, which is why those welfare programs exist, I do agree that at a certain point too much government help does more harm than good, but some people do need help, and are willing to admit it. And besides, this is going into politics, so run for office if you feel that strongly.

Okay, James, I am sorry about jumping to the conclusion that you blocked me on Facebook. I didn't think about the case in which you left Facebook. And I kinda see where you are coming from with the ADA thing now, but I think you are lumping welfare and ADA together which are two very different things. ADA helps people out so they can still work for a living and try to live similar lives as we do (i.e. wheelchair ramps for people who can't climb stairs). If you don't like welfare that is one thing, but saying that you shouldn't help disabled people out (ADA) is how your original post came across.

And when I drew the analogy to your thoughts and Hitler the second time, I hadn't read the post you had made since I had posted, so I wasn't trying to smack it in your face again. I am saying that the way you worded your first post could be construed badly. I don't know, maybe you could reread it and see if you could see why I thought that.

Again, I see where you are coming from with your private and public help ideas. In a lot of that I agree with, in that charities should do a lot of the work that is done by welfare. But you really need to stop referring to welfare as ADA. They are not the same at all. Welfare helps out all disadvantaged people that don't have much money, and ADA helps people in wheelchairs, quadriplegics, visually or hearing impaired, or those with learning disabilities (among other things). When you use the two interchangeably it makes us confused and makes you sound not caring of the disabled and handicapped. (I won't be back on until later)

James, as I have been reading this thread, I became curious as to how you translate Christianity to government programs. I am very much against government spending on public programs. It seems against my right to property to take my hard earned money and dictate where it is spent. If I am mature, I will save money for retirement. No need for social security there. Public Schooling, Public Healthcare, the list could continue, all go against free market and leave little incentive for improvement. So I have no argument with your distaste for gov't sponsored (a misnomer, it's sponsored by us) programs.
I think if you do the research, you will find that those in favor of these programs are seldom Christians or advocates of the following of Christ.

Truthfully, taking care of orphans and widows SHOULD be the responsibility of believers, not the gov't. Biblically, Christ gave all for us, we should reciprocate by doing the same for others.

Bottom line: Biblically, the gov't shouldn't have reason to meddle with welfare. Politically, they have no right.

Ugh, James is some crazed libertarian first and an anti-theist second. Just ignore him, there are better trolls around here. If he had his way, he would pay the geniuses of the world t develop better computers, and that would put me in a very tough spot.

This argument has strayed far from its original root, which was whether Jamison should have credited the Holy Spirit with the idea for the Dawn2Dusk event. Returning to that root, I would like to put in my two cents and say that if you are an atheist, then you obviously believe that God did not put that idea in his head. You are fully entitled to that belief as well; even Christians (or at least properly-practicing Christians) believe that man was given free will to choose whether he believes in God or not. However, you must also allow Jamison the same liberty of choosing to give credit to a being whom he believes actually did put such a thought in his head. He is equally as entitled to his belief as you are to yours, and demanding such a liberty of choice without allowing it to another is plain hypocrisy, regardless of your religious beliefs.

whoop for aggies who question religious bullshit.. there are more of us than y'all think.

and whoop for aggies who realize that God is really in control, no matter what popular society believes........read history......not the mainstream stuff, but REAL history.......dig and see what is there.......

Thank you, David for getting the topic back on topic. I lost focus there.
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." -Hebrews 12:2

Re: Real History

I have studied Fossil Records as well as many Christian scientists and geologists with organizations like AnswersInGenesis.org. They are highly interpretive depending on whether you hold to your belief of Catastrophism (that the world had unique catastrophic events responsible for how the world is today) vs. Uniformitarianism (everything happened gradually over billions of years). And won't you please stop with saying the fossil records are in your favor?

Here is a bunch of quotes from mostly evolutionists put together that explain denying the fossil record as evidence for evolution:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/fsslrc01.html

Also, your numbers of thousands of years are very open to interpretation. The dates that you throw out of 130,000 years ago are all based on the fossil layers that the bones are found in, which the date of the layers is determined by the fossils found in the layers. You can argue all you want, but that is circular reasoning. And radiometric dating is good sometimes, but other times it is inaccurate. The Helium diffusion model of dating puts the earth at about 6,000 years old plus or minus 2,0000 years. I am not trying to be self-righteous and assuming I know all things scientific, but I want people to know that scientific evidence isn't all one-sided leaning towards evolution as it many are led to believe.

If you are interested, answersingenesis.org has a wealth of information addressing almost every question I have had about creationism/evolution. I have studied this a lot as well. But I am not sure how often I will keep checking this but I will be on Facebook.

The fossil record is incomplete, yes. No one's trying to deny that. There are still a lot of discoveries to be made and as new evidence arises, scientists will revise evolutionary theory. That's how science works, it's no secret to anyone.

What I don't understand is how creationists point out that science isn't 100% certain and then make the ludicrous logical leap that 'fossils are missing == magical sky god (for which there is not a single shred of physical evidence on the entire planet) MUST have created EVERYTHING'. How does that work?

To James, and any one else that rejecs Christianity.

I am not looking to get deeply invovle in this discusion, but do fully suport Jamison, and Barclay and what they are doing. I would simply like to suggest book called "The Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel. It was written by an atheist journalist who went out to disprove Cristianity and the existance of God. I think it might answer a lot of questions you may have, and it uses science, logic, and reasoning to do so. give it a try, but prepare to be challenged.

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/nov/are-we-trapped-in-god.s-video-game

The above provides "pseudostatistical" analysis for the probability of a universe in which God can know, or even cares about, what type of underpants you're wearing. It's not to be taken too seriously in this debate, but it just might provide some interesting perspective for the inner physicist that lives in all of us.

james, i've read most of this thread and i just have to tell you that i will be praying for you. you say that you have rejected christian thinking, but it seems to me that you are still very convicted about this. if you were not, you would have read this article, rolled your eyes, and clicked on something else. obviously you have strong feelings about christianity. i pray that some day you will find peace about this subject. now, go to class and learn something that will make the world better! gig 'em!

You're all missing the point.

Just pray for a new head football coach next year.

Also pray that he won't sell player injury information for money when he makes 7 figures already.

Amen.